Our new blog!

I'll be posting on our family blog from now on. You can find us at http://oursimplejourney.blogspot.com/. Love you guys!

Coming Soon...

A new blog. No, not a new post- a whole new blog. Realize Life has run its course; Clark and I will be starting a family blog that we'll both be posting on... soon. I'll let you know once it's up and running. :)

Families Where Grace is in Place

I think Families Where Grace is in Place is an excellent book, and I highly recommend it. However, at least for a time, I am feeling pulled away from reviewing it on the blog. I hope to get back to it eventually, but for now I will leave it at this:

I think it's extremely important that Christians have relationships with their spouses, children, and other family members and friends that model the grace, forgiveness, and gentleness of Christ. What he has done for us should change the way we treat others; we should not try to control and manipulate others. There's no way any review I write can cover everything the book covers, so once again, I recommend the book. It's a pretty short read, but challenging and enlightening.

"Curse-Full" Relationships

In the first section of Families Where Grace is in Place, Jeff Van Vonderen discusses the fall and the curse that take place in Genesis, and how this has affected our relationships. This has been on my mind for a couple of days now.

So many of us are trying to perform and trying to get others to perform, trying to earn love and get others to earn our love, trying to avoid punishment and punishing others if they don't measure up. If our spouse, our children, our family members, our friends, will just behave the way we want them to on the outside, we give them more of our love and acceptance. And if they don't perform, we punish them with our words or actions.

Our relationship with God suffers, too. We wear ourselves out trying to live up to a self-imposed laundry list of expectations, believing that if we can just pull it together and perform well enough, God will love us more... and fearful that if our performance isn't good enough, he will love us less or punish us.

But this is not how our relationships with each other and with God were meant to be. When we are trying to control other people's actions and rewarding or punishing them for their ability to perform the way we want them to, and when we are trying to change our own behavior in order to win approval or avoid punishment, we are operating under the curse. Jeff Van Vonderen calls these kinds of relationships "curse-full," as opposed to "grace-full."

More on having grace-based relationships with spouses, children, and God later...

"Mothering isn't a job. It's a privilege."

This is an awesome blog post on being a mother. When so many people these days seem to think being a mother is an inconvenience, this mom speaks up for those of us who know it's a blessing:

http://blog.bravewriter.com/2009/04/27/on-being-a-mother/#more-996

Parenting With Grace

In the video we watched at small group last week, Rob Bell talked about how so many people live their lives thinking God is going to punish them for every little thing. As we discussed the video afterward, I had all these thoughts going through my mind, but at the time I couldn’t manage to piece them all together. What I did say was something to the effect of so many people are raised without a real understanding of grace and forgiveness that it’s no wonder they end up believing God’s out to punish them.

Since then I've had more time to think about it all, and I've also decided to start re-reading Families Where Grace is in Place by Jeff Van Vonderen. As I read through the book, I'll be writing about my thoughts here. But to start the whole thing off, I would like to share why I think it is so vital that Christian parents intentionally parent with grace, rather than the punitive "us vs. them" approach that is unfortunately seen and even advocated all too often in Christian circles. This grace-based model of parenting and discipline is what my family has chosen, for very specific reasons.

Christians are generally quick to agree that as parents, we should teach our children about God- not just through our words, but most importantly through our actions. We talk about God’s grace and forgiveness, his gentleness and understanding, but do we model it? If we threaten and punish and shame and speak harshly to our children—as, inexplicably, so many Christian parents do—can we expect them to reach adulthood with a grasp on the grace and forgiveness of God? How can they truly GET that God is not going to punish them every time they screw up?

I can hear the outcry now: “But we have a responsibility to discipline our children, they have to learn right from wrong, they have to experience consequences.” Yes. I agree with all of that. But I absolutely do not believe that the punitive approach- threatening, shaming, spanking- is the way God intends us to discipline. Discipline is about instruction, teaching, and guidance. It’s about teaching a child to truly understand right from wrong, and not to simply modify their outward behavior.

As for consequences- I believe God allows us to experience the consequences of our actions, but he does not hand down arbitrary and unrelated punishments. Yet parents do this all the time! It’s as though there's this mentality of, “You did something I don’t like, so I’m going to get you back and make you suffer (by taking away something you like, or making you feel bad, or smacking you).” And that breaks my heart because it just sets kids up to believe God operates the same way. He doesn’t. And if that’s not how God treats me, then that is not how I want to treat the children he’s given me. I’d rather look at how God does discipline his children, then model that in my own life.

So how does he discipline us? My God has never made me feel like I’m an embarrassment or a disappointment or a bother to him. He has never paid me back for my sins. He knows that I’m incapable of doing everything right, and he expects that I will screw up and disobey and make terrible choices sometimes. And he realizes that when I do those things, it doesn’t reflect on him, so he has no reason to feel embarrassed. My God leads me gently. Firmly, yes, but gently and patiently. He allows me room to mess up and he allows me to experience the natural consequences of my choices. He teaches me right from wrong, and he instructs and guides me in the attitudes and subsequent actions he wants me to have. And he does it without threats, without shaming, without physical punishment.

Discipline can certainly be painful, but this is because it involves facing your own mistakes and weaknesses, and making changes. That's not easy! But while the process of discipline can be painful, causing pain should never be the goal of discipline, and changing the outward behaviors shouldn’t be the goal either. God is more interested in changing our hearts than changing our outward behavior, because he knows that when our hearts change, then our actions will naturally change as well. Obviously as parents we cannot change the hearts of our children- only God can change a heart- but we CAN go beyond the outward behavior and look at the reasons why they may behave in a certain way, as well as teach them the appropriate behaviors and reasons for them. Of course, this involves loving, patient, gentle teaching, and unfortunately that requires more work and attention than some parents are willing to give. It’s easier to threaten or verbally shame or spank. I just thank God that he is willing to do the work it takes to discipline me gently instead of taking the easy way out.

And that all brings me back to what Rob Bell said in the video, about people being afraid that God is going to punish them all the time, and to the book about living out grace within the family. It is because of God’s grace and forgiveness that I choose to discipline my children the way I do. I want my interactions with them to model the grace of God, so that when they are older they will be better equipped to understand his grace.

As I read through Families Where Grace is in Place, I will be posting my thoughts, so be sure to check back!

Reflecting on Lent

So Lent is over. It went by much more quickly than I thought it would, and now here I am on the other side of it, reflecting on the past 6 weeks. I assumed I would come out of Lent feeling refreshed- and in a way I did- but more than that, I feel like I have been humbled. I've been reminded of my own brokenness and God's grace.

I realized a lot of not very flattering things about myself, and I've admitted and faced head-on some of my struggles and weaknesses. And at some point over the past several weeks I realized that God doesn't want me to be constantly striving for perfection and hating myself for being unable to attain it, and he isn't disappointed in me. He knew all along that I, just like everyone else, am broken. He knows my struggles- how I have a tendency to care too much about what other people think, or compare myself to others, or become prideful, or stubbornly cling to independence, or want praise and recognition, or let myself be controlled by jealousy, fear, impatience, and laziness. He knows I am broken and am so very far from perfect. And he loves me.

For so long I've been looking at my weaknesses as something that I must get control over; I have felt this overwhelming sense of guilt and frustration for not being good enough and for failing at my own efforts to improve. And it's true that I need to work on these areas of weakness, but not out of guilt. I need to remember that God loves me just as I am and I need to look to look to him for help. At some point, in a moment of frustration and helplessness, I said, "Isn't there ANYTHING I can do on my own?" and I felt this whisper in my heart saying, "Yes- on your own you can screw it up." And that is so true. I have been trying to go it alone in so many areas of my life, instead of admitting my brokenness and asking for help from a God who loves me.

Who ever would have thought that recognizing my own brokenness would be so freeing? I feel like I've been freed from guilt, self-criticism, and a pursuit for perfection. I feel like I've been freed to be imperfect and to rely on God's grace. He's the one who is capable of changing me.

On My Mind

These have been on my mind lately, for various reasons...

Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. -1 Corinthians 13:4-7

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. -Galatians 5:22-23

The Lord is at hand; do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. -Philippians 3:5b-7

A Good Quote

The ministry of evangelization is an extraordinary opportunity of showing gratitude to Jesus by passing on His gospel of grace to others. However, the "conversion by concussion" method, with one sledgehammer blow of the Bible after another, betrays a basic disrespect for the dignity of the other and is utterly alien to the gospel imperative to bear witness. To evangelize a person is to say to him or her, You, too, are loved by God in the Lord Jesus. And not only to say it but to really think it and relate it to the man or woman so they can sense it. This is what it means to announce the Good News. But that becomes possible only by offering the person your friendship- a friendship that is real, unselfish, without condescension, full of confidence, and profound esteem.

-Brennan Manning, The Ragamuffin Gospel

I have nothing to add.

Limitations Can Be a Good Thing

Today at a meeting of our church's Core Team, I realized a couple of things that I wanted to share.

It started when one person mentioned that she wants to be more involved but right now she just can't because she's working on a master's degree. I looked around the table and thought about the members of our Core Team. We are all married, and many of us have young children. Some have full-time jobs, some are stay-at-home moms, some are in school.

I realized that every single one of us have things in our lives that mean that, individually, we simply cannot do all we want to do regarding our church. All of us have other things, important things, that also require our time and attention. We all do what we can, of course, but none of us are capable of doing it all.

I've spent so much time feeling guilty because I can't do everything I want to do and be involved in everything I want to be involved in. And today I realized that nobody can. It's not just me! You have no idea what a relief this is. I feel like a huge burden has been lifted.

But I realized something else. I don't think any of us are meant to be capable of doing everything we want to do. If we were, we wouldn't need each other. Our limitations foster community and dependence on each other- and that is a wonderful thing!

Fear and Uncertainty

This is an excerpt from a post I wrote a little over two years ago while reading Shane Claiborne's The Irresistible Revolution. These same thoughts have been on my mind again, so I thought I'd re-post them:

How often do most of us actually go out and intentionally place ourselves among the impoverished or homeless or suffering? Giving to charity is a great thing, of course, but it's also a very sterile, keep-your-hands-clean way of helping others. In the book I'm reading, Shane asks how it might change the world if Christians start living like Jesus actually meant the things he said. Instead of keeping ourselves as separated as we can from people who are in need, why not move out of our comfort zones and spend time among them, as Jesus did? If God incarnate chose to spend his time on earth living among the poor, sick, and suffering, why aren't God's followers doing the same? Somehow I don’t think merely living in the same world, state, or city as them is really what Jesus was talking about. He had relationships with people in need.

I must admit, two years later I am still struggling with this. I believe, as much as I did then, that forming actual relationships with people in need is critical. But I don't feel that I've made much progress in forming those relationships myself. I've been asking myself why this is, and I could give myself the excuse that I don't have much time that I am able to go out among people in need. That's true; I think it becomes more difficult with children in tow, even to volunteer. But while it's true, it is still an excuse; it's not the whole truth and I know it.

The biggest reason I struggle in this area is fear. I am afraid of unintentionally doing or saying something hurtful or offensive. I'm afraid of making people feel worse. I'm afraid of looking like I'm some privileged white girl taking on the poor as though they're a quaint little project.

And another very real reason: I just don't know how to start. I'm shy, I often feel awkward, I have a hard time speaking up and letting people get to know me. If I have a hard time initiating and forming relationships with people I am likely to encounter all the time, then how in the world am I going to initiate relationships with people that I do not encounter all the time? That is a serious question, not a rhetorical one. Truth be told, I don't know how to start. I'm pretty sure I can't just go into the lower income areas of town, knock on people's doors, and say, "I want to get to know you." That is a little strange.

It all comes down to this: I really, truly DO want to get to know people who are in need, to form relationships with them, to really get to know them. But I am paralyzed by my fear and uncertainty, and I don't know how to move past those things.

Poverty Guidelines for 2009

As I said yesterday, 15.7%, or almost 15,000 people in Bradley County are in poverty. Here is a closer look at what that means.

The first number is the number of people in the family; the second is income. So for my family, a family of four, if we made $22,050 or less per year we would be considered to be in poverty.

1- 10,830
2- 14,570
3- 18,310
4- 22,050
5- 25,790
6- 29,530
7- 33,270
8- 37,010
For families with more than 8 persons, add $3,740 for each additional person.
http://aspe.hhs.gov/POVERTY/09poverty.shtml

Let's Change the World One Little Act of Love at a Time

In looking up poverty statistics, I discovered that 15.7% of people in the county I live in are at or below the poverty level. Nearly fifteen thousand of our neighbors- men and women, children, the elderly- are impoverished. And that is just in Bradley County, Tennessee.

Upon looking at the numbers more, I determined that for every person in Bradley County who is in poverty, 5 people are not. So then I asked myself a few questions...

What are the people who are not in poverty-- about 80,000 of them total-- doing to help those who are? I am not in poverty; what am I doing to help those who are?

If five people share some of what they have with one person, wouldn't the needs, and even some wants, of all 6 be met?

I know you are probably going to call me a socialist now, but I'm really not. I have read the quote, "When I feed the poor, they call me a saint, but when I ask why the poor are hungry, they call me a communist." I'll be very clear: I do not believe the solution to the problem of poverty can be found in government-mandated redistribution of wealth. No, I believe it is much more personal than that. Imagine with me for a moment... what if people would truly turn their hearts to each other... what if people really loved their neighbors, all their neighbors, as much as they love themselves... what if people who have more than they need would voluntarily give to those who are in poverty, not out of a sense of obligation but out of love? Wouldn't we be able to make a huge dent in poverty around the world? Wouldn't we all be more in community with each other? Imagine the impact on crime, if all people's needs, and some of their wants, were met, and if people really demonstrated love and community!

Okay, now let's step out of the realm of idealism and back into reality. This is not something that we can "make" happen. Redistribution can be mandated, but love cannot. And I truly believe love is the key. Paul wrote about this in 1 Corinthians 13; we can do all sorts of things, good things, but if we don't have love, what is it really worth? What difference does it really make?

I am not saying that I have love all figured out and perfected. I don't, not even close. But I know that I believe in it, and that I am trying. I want to love others as I love myself, and I want to encourage other people to do the same. Jesus said the kingdom of God is like a tiny mustard seed that grows into a tree, or a little bit of leaven that is worked into flour until the whole thing is leavened. It's something small, but it spreads and grows rapidly and changes everything it touches. And that is how true love for our neighbors is, I think. It may start small, with just a few people, but it grows and spreads rapidly, and changes everything it touches.

Will you join me in loving others?

Stop the Lifeboat, I Want Out

I am still reading Donald Miller, although I have finished Blue Like Jazz and have moved on to Searching For God Knows What. In this book he speaks of a "lifeboat mentality," where basically throughout life we are operating as though we are all on a lifeboat and someone has to be thrown overboard, so we are trying to decide who is worthy and who isn't. And in the process we are trying to move ourselves up higher, justify ourselves and show that we are better than others. We are looking for redemption from our peers, rather than from God.

What's funny is I read all of this about a day after I had started pondering some things about myself. One, that I often base my sense of whether I am special or valuable on my perception of whether other people think I'm special or valuable. And two, a lot of the time I try do or believe certain things not because I wholeheartedly embrace them, but because I want to find my identity in them and gain acceptance from the people who do wholeheartedly embrace them.

Then I opened up this book, and there's Donald Miller saying that we look to other people to tell us who we are and what we are worth, instead of finding our identity and our value in God.

Yet, for some reason, the fact that God values me greatly didn't make me feel much better about it all; it sort of felt like the phrase "a face only a mother could love." You know, everyone else may dislike me or think I'm weird, but hey, Jesus loves me so it's all good. The thought that God loves and values me didn't feel as comforting as being loved and valued by people. That is horrible, I know, but I am being honest. That's how I felt.

Then I thought that maybe the reason it doesn't feel all that comforting is because I am approaching it all from the lifeboat mentality Miller speaks of; when other people affirm me and tell me who I am, there's a chance to move up, a chance to be more special than others. But God doesn't operate like that; God values me just the same as everyone else; with God I am no worse, and no better, than anyone else. There's no edging my way up, no hierarchy of importance. And it struck me then how firmly entrenched I have become in the lifeboat mentality.

I talk a good game about loving everyone equally and all people being valuable, and I do believe that, but somehow when it comes down to applying it, I am still struggling.

So I started thinking about how I would live if I truly operated out of the belief that everyone is equally valued, that I am no better or worse than anyone else, and no one is any better or worse than me. Jesus did not operate under the sham of a popularity contest, and so I think I probably am not supposed to either.

I think that, perhaps, if I can escape the lifeboat mentality I will be able to see the beauty of each individual, myself included; maybe I can be confident in my own skin, in my own beliefs, in my own talents, and appreciate the person God created. He didn't create me to be anyone else, he created me to be me. And perhaps I will also be able to celebrate people's unique differences, rather than comparing myself to them to see where I stand.

And I think that our equal value before God means not only that we are all equally beautiful, but that we are also equally broken. The specific things we struggle with may be different, but we are all broken. So, then, there is no room for judging or looking down on others, because I am just as screwed up as they are, and God values them just as much as he values me.

C.S. Lewis wrote this poem, and I identify with it all too well:

All this is flashy rhetoric about loving you.
I never had a selfless thought since I was born.
I am mercenary and self-seeking through and through.
I want God, you, all friends, merely to serve my turn.
Peace, reassurance, pleasure, are the goals I seek,
I cannot crawl one inch outside my proper skin;
I talk of love-- a scholar's parrot may talk Greek--
But, self-imprisoned, always end up where I begin.

I'm not really sure how to wrap this up, because honestly, it's not all wrapped up neatly in my head yet either. All I know is that I am more self-focused than I thought I was, that I have unconsciously bought into this lifeboat mentality and it is preventing me from loving people the way I should and living my life the way I should, and I want out of it. I want to trade in the lifeboat for God's way, because it is so much better, but I don't know how.

I don't know how.

Um, did you mean to say pens?

This, friends, is a perfect example of just how important it is to have someone proofread your writing...

On Water

I remember being a young child and riding with my grandfather in his pickup truck. He was my dad's dad, he lived with us, and I called him Papaw (much to my mother's chagrin; she would have preferred that I call him Grandpa or Granddad, but one of her friends always referred to him as my Papaw, and the name stuck).

Each day he'd go out in his truck and make his rounds- coffee (and perhaps donuts if I was with him) and a drive through the cemetery where his father was buried. I'd ride along sometimes and we'd listen to the radio, country music. There was a Randy Travis song that always made me think of him.

If the story's told, only heaven knows,
But his hat seemed to me like an old halo.
And although his wings, they were never seen,
I thought that he walked on water.

He was a good man, simple and kindhearted, but could have a sharp tongue when angry. I was always amused, awed, and a bit frightened when he would say cuss words. Once when I was about seven or eight years old, I hid a whoopie cushion in his chair, which he very unsuspectingly sat upon. I swear he jumped ten feet in the air. I can still hear his gruff voice, grumbling, "What in the hell was that?" as he looked around the room while the rest of us snickered. We actually captured the moment on a home video. I wish we could find that video tape!

He always wore blue work shirts, and when he was going out, a button-up sweater and his red and white Robinson's Building Center cap. He chewed Beech-Nut tobacco, and he had false teeth but I don't think I ever saw him wear them. He'd be awake at all hours of the night, unable to stay asleep for long because of arthritis pain. He'd sit and read Westerns, and was always ready to talk and tell stories to anyone who'd sit with him for a while. He loved to give to others and kept very little money for himself. He never wanted anyone to pay him back; he just wanted people to remember to help others when they were able.

He passed away six years ago, on the first of March. He's buried in that same cemetery under a dignified old tree.

And I loved him, and he loved me,
And Lord, I cried the day he died,
'Cause I thought that he walked on water.

Groaning for Redemption

During Lent, as I have spent much less time online, I have been reading some good books. Right now I'm re-reading Donald Miller's Blue Like Jazz. A few nights ago I read this particular excerpt and it resonated with me; I felt as though I could have written it myself:

I wanted to be over this, done with this. I didn't want to live in a broken world or a broken me. I wasn't trying to weasel out of anything, I just wasn't in the mood to be on earth that night.

I have been feeling that more than ever lately. Please don't worry about me; this isn't coming out of a place of depression. It's coming out of a place of reflection, of realizing more and more how broken the world is, how broken I am, and my desire to not live that way anymore.

For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. -Romans 8:22-23

It's Time For Lent...

This year for Lent, I am taking a break from the internet. I've known for a long time that I spend too much time online and not enough time doing things I need to do or focusing on things that are really important. So if you don't see me around much for the next several weeks, that's why. :) It's time to refocus.

My Boys

It is so amazing to watch my children grow and change before my eyes, to watch them learn and do new things, to see their personalities emerging in so many ways.



Elijah is halfway through kindergarten now, and he is simply bursting at the seams with new knowledge- words, facts, ideas. He loves to demonstrate how high he can count, he has all kinds of theories about how and why things work, and he's becoming quite a skilled reader. He's always pointing out words that he knows or sounding out new ones that he sees. He doesn't always get them right, but he tries. Last week he brought a beginning reader home from the school library and read the whole thing aloud to us with very little help.

His current favorite thing is Star Wars, and he has decided he wants to be a Jedi when he grows up, rather than a rock star. And when he's around his baby brother, he is just amazing. He's incredibly gentle and sweet, talking to Isaac and showing him things, hugging and kissing him, trying to help if he cries. Elijah is so energetic and bright and caring. He's just an amazing kid, and I am so blessed to have him as my son.


Isaac's only 2 months old, and already he has grown and changed so much. He started smiling early, around a month ago, and his whole face lights up when he smiles.
He also loves to babble and "talk" to us, and I am sure it won't be long before he laughs for the first time. He's very calm and laid-back and cuddly. He has recently started to realize that he can use his hands to touch, hit, and grab things, although this is still developing and he still seems a bit surprised when he does manage to make a toy rattle or pull his pacifier out of his mouth. He is fascinated by watching people eat, and of course he loves to be held and talked to (which happens frequently around here!) And when Elijah is around, he watches him intently, with a look of total admiration on his face. The love between the two of them is so obvious and it just melts my heart; I never knew something so wonderful was missing from our family.



Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward. -Psalm 127:3

Warning: Irreverent Humor Ahead

My kindhearted six year old is beginning to learn about Martin Luther King Jr. While he doesn't know all the details, he can tell you that MLK Jr. did nice things for people, wanted everyone to be treated the same, and that some people hurt him and he died.

So this morning, he suggested in his very innocent way that we have a Martin Luther King party today. Complete with... wait for it... a Martin Luther King Jr. pinata.

Wow. Can you imagine going to the store and telling them what we were looking for? Can you imagine hanging that pinata out on a tree? I can see it on the Fail Blog now, "MLK Day FAIL." Oh, wow.

I kept a straight face and told him they don't make Martin Luther King pinatas.

Wow.

(I feel the need to add that we would never, ever do such a thing and are in no way sympathetic toward those who would. It just struck me as funny.)

INFJ

I've taken a few of these personality tests before, but I thought I'd post my results here this time. See, it's not that I'm weird, it's just that only 1% of the population has this personality type! ;)





INFJ- "The Confidant"


"INFJs are gentle, caring, complex and highly intuitive individuals. Artistic and creative, they live in a world of hidden meanings and possibilities. Only one percent of the population has an INFJ Personality Type, making it the most rare of all the types."

"...desire to contribute to the welfare of others and genuinely enjoy helping their companions. Although Counselors tend to be private, sensitive people, and are not generally visible leaders, they nevertheless work quite intensely with those close to them, quietly exerting their influence behind the scenes..."

"INFJs tend to be devoted to what they believe in and seek work where their needs, values, and ideals can be deeply engaged. They move on the wave of their inspirations and are determined to see that their values are worked out in their lives. They will work toward their goals individually and, when needed, will put together a team of other highly dedicated people like themselves."

"INFJs enjoy a greater clarity of perception of inner, unconscious processes than all but their INTJ cousins. Just as SP types commune with the object and "live in the here and now" of the physical world, INFJs readily grasp the hidden psychological stimuli behind the more observable dynamics of behavior and affect."

"creative, smart, focus on fantasy more than reality, attracted to sad things, fears doing the wrong thing, observer, avoidant..."